Curse

Shadowhaze · Mar 19, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

True. But there are shields with low req or nice skin shields that are indeed hudreds of ecto. Just saying. I just agree with what others have said that it should be available to all at the onset.

NoConnection · Mar 20, 2010, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

LMAO. Thats the definition of RARE , something UNCOMMON , something you dont see everyday . If you allow PvP chars to create those shields , they STOP BEING RARE lol .

Then explain to me how all those voltaic spears/tormented weapons/etc. etc. are still rare while pvp characters CAN obtain them????

FoxBat · Mar 23, 2010, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Easiest band-aid solution: raise the breakpoint on those relevant tactics war stances to 9. Not like it couldn't use a minor nerf. Command shields are already mostly 9 thanks to the fall back breakpoint.

Tenebrae · Mar 23, 2010, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoConnection

Then explain to me how all those voltaic spears/tormented weapons/etc. etc. are still rare while pvp characters CAN obtain them????

Really ? is that a serious question ?

First : Be able to OBTAIN them and actually have free access of creation in control panel is a diff thing.
Second : Rarity from skins =\= rarity from req
Third : Exotic weapons are not something cheap and you can see them everyday.

Asking to let pvp chars create a R8/16 armor free is the same as asking to let pvp chars to create Exotic Weapons with 0 cost and no , it shouldnt happen , ever.

upier · Mar 23, 2010, 10:17 AM // 10:17

tmakinen · Mar 23, 2010, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Based on the guiding principle of GW that fair PvP equals to everybody having functionally equivalent gear regardless of time played, I must /sign this.

However, the issue is more complicated than just r7/8 shields. Any PvE item that cannot be replicated through the PvP equipment generator is a potential liability. To give an example, PvE suicide bombers get an edge (superior health manipulation) over PvP ones by using the infamous -50HP Grim Cesta. Thus the fix would necessarily be more complicated than just upping the stats since some of the odd PvE items don't have anything comparable on the PvP side.

It would probably be too cumbersome to be able to PvP generate every possible stat combination. One solution would be to categorically block weapons that are not PvP stat system compatible, or in a more restricted approach block just the offending stats so that a furious 15>50 long sword of skeletonslaying would appear without the postfix while in PvP.

Regarding the existing base of r7/8 shields on PvP characters ... since it's against the fundamental design principle it can be considered an exploit. Too bad.

*lemming* · Mar 23, 2010, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Asking to let pvp chars create a R8/16 armor free is the same as asking to let pvp chars to create Exotic Weapons with 0 cost

It's actually not. The former has an actual advantage, whereas the latter is completely cosmetic.

If r8 shields didn't have the benefit of allowing an additional 1-2 points in Divine Favor, nobody would give a shit.

Tenebrae · Mar 23, 2010, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Actually, it's not.
Since PvE is about being a unique snowflake, it makes sense to make it harder for PvP guys to obtain said items.
R8/16 is NOT about vanity.

(Although personally I still wouldn't mind if PvP guys would be allowed to get the pretty at 0 cost if that meant I could get my Tigger in PvE.)

Actually it is. Read my previous posts , that was a comparation , i didnt meant it to be a 100% match.
Theres almost no diff between an R8/16 and an R8/15 Shield to PvP , wanting the first one IS about vanity. That 1 armor is not going to save your life in 99.999% of the cases but is going to make the shield bloody hell rare .... not to mention those R7/16 and those dual dmg reduction mode .... that would be the next step ? no mate , hell no.

Want lower req shields in REGULAR down progression ? ( r8/15, and r7/14 ) fine for me , but R8/16 ? no , those are rare items that can be fairly compared to exotic weapons wich have a COST. You want it ? you BUY it , rares are NOT for free and should NEVER be. That "is not about vanity , is about PvP stat use" dont work , is just an excuse .

upier · Mar 23, 2010, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Tenebrae · Mar 23, 2010, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The difference isn't huge.
The problem is that there IS a difference and this difference isn't skill related. It's gear-related.
That's why this is broken for a game such as GW.

It seems to me that you didnt read what i wrote in any of my posts , instead you read a "keyword" and reply it.
Dude , rarity comes from various sources :
-Skin drop
-Req
-Colour
-Stats
The more things an item has , the more rare it is. That petition affects the second one. And now , re-read my post again , specially the part when i mention reqs and armor level .

upier · Mar 23, 2010, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Tenebrae · Mar 23, 2010, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Is there a difference between 15 and 16?

In PvP terms of armor resistance ? almost nothing , not even to a 60 armor char.
Mathematically ? yes , a really low % , less than 10.
In Rarity ? hell yes , a R8/16 is more than double the money cost of an R8/15 and sometimes more than 4x.

Any other question ?

upier · Mar 23, 2010, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Tenebrae · Mar 23, 2010, 02:04 PM // 14:04

"Theres almost no diff between an R8/16 and an R8/15 Shield to PvP , wanting the first one ( just because is rarer than the second and that 1 armor has near to 0 relevance un pvp armor rating so that is not a real reason) IS about vanity." <- Do you get it now with that explanation ? hope so.

Seriously , im just tired of repeating myself , i think i made the point between PvP usage and Rarity very clear. It seems that almost all ppl in this thread get it so , enough of this.

upier · Mar 23, 2010, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Tenebrae · Mar 23, 2010, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That would mean that if FoW armour would give 61 AL instead of 60 that the 1k set gives that would be considered vanity?
If the Tormented sword would be defined with 16-22 instead of the collectors 15-22, that would also be considered vanity?

Woah you should really learn to read AND understand.

That "IF" is breaking the rules atm and has nothing to do with this thread because no one is asking here for 18 armor rate shields. The op never said MAX ARMOR ( lets see if capital letters work ) just q8 ....but some greedy ppl came in . I cant believe that someone with your post count is so clueless about rarity and vanity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

"There is no difference" does not equal "there is ALMOST no difference".
The same way that 1.8 times 3 isn't 6.

Asking for lower req shields does not equal asking for lower req shields with MAX armor. The same way that reading someone said that i said something does not equal i said that. Putting words into another person´s mouth is lame ...

upier · Mar 23, 2010, 03:10 PM // 15:10

FoxBat · Mar 23, 2010, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Asking for lower req shields does not equal asking for lower req shields with MAX armor.

It's not unreasonable to assume the OP isn't stupid.

greep · Mar 23, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

/signed

Economy = PvE
Fairness = PvP.

How about we have consets available in PvP so it'd be good for the economy?

FREAKIN NO!

I'm sorry, but to people who didn't sign this, actually THINK about ALL THE ASPECTS.

Tenebrae · Mar 23, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

It's not unreasonable to assume the OP isn't stupid.

I only assumed he wasnt a greedy guy who is asking for lower reqs because QQ or cant buy one . I just assumed that he wanted a R8 for having more options in att points distribution among some builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If A.Net was to change that FoW gives 61 AL, that wouldn't be breaking the rules. A.Net decides what the rules are, so they can't break them.

It would be breaking the rules of fairness that some greed... i mean pvp ppl that want R8/16 AL shields for free claim to be the "fair reason". For the rest , im not going to repeat myself for the 4th time. GL & HF